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RE: "If you are the GOAT of tennis players, you should be able play the game consistently - throughout your career and beyond - with a massive margin from the rest of the field. Period." I'm going to assume TP went brain dead for a sentence and move on... The Joker has about 12 slams to win before he enters the GOAT discussion, methinks. A fun question (as long as we all agree that it is not REALLY answer-able) might be: Novak playing as he is now vs. Fed as his best (on, say, a hard court): who wins? Try to forget that Fed's game is more elegant. Most of us would agree on that. Try to forget who is your favorite (fat chance). Who would win? Would Novak's power and accuracy be enough? Would Fed's mastery of freaking near every shot ever seen prevent Novak from even USING his power and accuracy? Dunno. I'd lean toward Novak, but I bet a few of you could talk me out of it.


Maybe Djokovic was staking his claim as the GOAT who actually ate grass. As story lines go, Fed's a tad smarter. He had his cow Bessy do the grass thing.


My defintion of the GOAT is: GOAT = The Most Successful Player. So number of titles, weeks (YEARS!) as #1 etc. You cannot sum up "Dominance"! It's a psychological (irrational and biased) dimension! H2H is in the same department. It means nothing. I'm with Sperry that TP "went brain dead" in this post. LOL. Now let's get ready for DC! :-)


I think it has to be a ratio of- how many grand slams have been played:wins
-regardless surface
-regardless age
-regardless any time frames-(how quickly or how slow)
-regardless how good other fellow players at the time
-regardless equipment available at the time

Nelson Goodman

Sperry asked: "A fun question (as long as we all agree that it is not REALLY answer-able) might be: Novak playing as he is now vs. Fed as his best (on, say, a hard court): who wins?"

Hmmm, what can we say on this really except to point to the French Open semi? An absolute classic match - by far the best quality tennis we've seen this year in my view (I'd say perhaps better than any match in 2010 as well), with Fed coming through. I simply won't accept as credible any excuses on Nole's behalf (e.g., the "slow start due to 4-day off" argument that is circulating is complete bs for anyone who saw the first set, including Nole's start which put him up 4-2). The only sensible qualifications are:

(a) Clay is not Nole's best surface, esp. against Fed, b/c his movement - the key to his game against Fed - is not as good as on hardcourt. But then again clay is not Fed's best surface either and arguably overall tilts more in favor of Nole than Fed. The most "neutral" surface b/t them is fast hardcourt ala USO. Slow hardcourt ala AO is clearly Nole's best surface and neutralizes Fed's game a lot.

(b) It is arguable that, as utterly brilliant as Fed was a month ago, it is still less than what he could've done a few years ago.

David Locke

"Wood will always rise up in water before anything else?"

As opposed to wood rising down?


It's not just about titles. There have been truly great players who have missed out on the titles they deserved for various reasons, including luck, injury, politics, etc. That's why the argument about "greatest of all time" will always be based on subjective reasoning and the problem will never be solved.


#1 - GS titles
#2 - Number of weeks as No.1
#3 - Number of ATP titles.

Give points for above categories that most tennis fans would agree on and add them up. ( eg.,GS=10 per title, Weeks = 1 per week as #1 and ATP titles =5 per masters title and 1 per each other ATP title.

Since I am lazy, can someone else figure out how these criteria stack up for current guys?

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