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12/11/2017

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Veglia

2009 AO, Rod Laver

RafaKenya

Nole in Wimbledon 2014

RafaKenya

Oh, I just saw the hint

Alpha

2008 FO; crowd

Veglia

"I'm so honoured the legends came out, it means a world to me"

Clifford

McEnroe, 2008 Wimbledon?*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68Q_z0iLIc8

*I'm not sure I agree that Federer was "begging" here, but I think this might be what TP is after. I also thought there was a comment about throwing "everything I had" at him, but it wasn't enough.

Jabali

Haha yeah. I was also about to post 2008 FO too

Tennis Planet

WINNER: CLIFFORD.

Veglia

Congrats!

O

Congrats, CLIFFORD and TP, for a great WOF.

This W was surely the worst loss Federer could suffer, and Mac was understandably overjoyed for the quality the match produced.

However, times have moved on. Federer has finally reached his true potential at AO17. He played balanced tennis not running around some BH and leave the court open any more.

With Federer and Rafa having eual level of power, we witnessed a contest that was really competitive, that both believed victory.

The quality of AO17 left W08 in the dust. Also AO is a neutral surface for Federer and Rafa? maybe?

Gary Moser

"This W was surely the worst loss Federer could suffer"
------------------------------------------------------
I contend that, 4 weeks earlier, his 1-6, 3-6. 0-6 loss in the FO Final might be the "worst loss Federer could suffer".

But to save match point at the end of the 4th set, and then be within 2 points of victory in the 5th?
[ Especially since he was on the cusp on a SIXTH CONSECUTIVE Wimbledon title, to surpass Borg? ]

No.

Alpha

Congrats Clifford!

O

If you look at Federer playing Rafa at FO, everything about his body language seemed negative to me. He lost and lost, to the point I don't care if it's a triple bagel or going down from 10 MPs up.

At W08, he had a tough but still believed in victory and came as close as 2 points from winning.

That's why I thought it was his worst loss, because he thought it was a winnable match.

He snatched loss from the jaws of victory, and that's worse than losing something he never had a chance.

I see your point of worse loss is getting pummelled and humiliated by Rafa at FO. I happen not to care about the pummelling and humiliation Rafa administered to the rest of the tennis world any more.

I thought that Rafa was untouchable at FO when healthy "under FO's conditions". The fact that FO doesn't have hawkeye makes things a million times worse.

It's maybe a case of normalcy bias, that most people would think Rafa wins and Rafa makes shots if he plays a match at FO. He therefore probably get calls his way to make him win, even if someone can beat him if hawkeye were available.

The same normalcy bias may have existed at AO17, almost all so called exports predicted a Rafa victory, despite Federer was very different and maybe playing better than ever before.

At AO, Rafa was still great at hammering shots. He save BPs in every game in the 5th set? Federer came up many miraculous shots that only just caught the lines. Without hawk eye like FO, the AO decision could have so easily given to Rafa. TP's theory of Rafa owning Federer could have stood today.

I'm very grateful to AO17, where some great tennis was played by both Federer and Rafa. In the years between 2003 and 2013, it was mostly Rafa shinning.

Gary Moser

"He snatched loss from the jaws of victory, and that's worse than losing something he never had a chance."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) My take: Forget Federer. Forget Nadal. Whenever ANY player saves match point
near the end of Set #4 before ending up 2 points from a win in Set #5,
he's lucky as hell to be even SNIFFING victory, let alone framing it as a "snatched loss"...

(2) My take: Forget Federer. Forget Nadal. Whenever ANY player has taken his main rival
to four sets in four out of their five meetings in the same Slam,
but gets only 4 games out of 22 in the other one...only in RETROSPECT could it be said that "he never had a chance".

Alpha

Statistically worst loss? FO 2008.

The loss after which he felt worst? Either W08 or AO09.

O

Cool if you thought Federer stood a chance or chances beating Rafa at FOs, that might be at the bottom of this discussion.

Gary Moser

It IS at the bottom for me, because of 2006.

He had double-match point in the 5th set of the Rome Final, and then got to a 4th-set tiebreaker at RG.

Right there, in my view.

Clifford

After all these years, I'm finally on the WOF for a skill-testing question!
Thanks, TP and the clan!

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