So if Nadal is @ 20 Slams and Federer @ 19................
Even though there's no debate as to who is the more talented player - by a continent - don't think that ONE piece can bridge the GOAT bridge far enough to allow Federer the undisputed GOAT status like Jordan and Ali.
Oh, what did you say? "Why? What's the difference? If Ali and Jordan qualify..........."
The ONE major difference is that Nadal and Federer are contemporaries. The contrast meter is TOO 'stark', 'naked' and 'in your face' to ignore unlike the scenarios with the other two clowns.
That eliminates the 'other era' excuse - with respect to competition, technology, rules, player physical attributes, nutrition etc., for starters, to impede the bridge construction all the way to the other end.
Then you have the obscenely lopsided H2H stat that pushes the 'stark' same era factor to the severely extreme post - further convoluting the GOAT conclusion.
Add to it the ABSOLUTE domination of Nadal @ 99% of the 'that matter' stats: Slams, Masters 1000, Olympics, Davis Cup, 10 FO titles, 10 titles @ three tournaments - and counting, Clay GOAT, Condom carefulness, WTF, most weeks @ No. 1 (OK not making the last two - yet - cannot be held against him).
Irony? Clown overtaking Federer is NOT someone equally or even 'close to' as talented as him. Heck, the clown is universally acknowledged to be a ONE trick pony with questionable social graces. Heck, just a pony. Forget that he cannot even get married and have twins already. And that he has fake hair. And that Toni was robbed of 'Y' (Tony) - when he was still in his shorts. And that his female sister looks like him - and works as substitute at times.
Bottom line: Federer will be relegated to the 'most talented player to ever play tennis' dungeon which is just another way to add insult to injury.
Here are the 'arguments' two are 'presenting' to push their case:
NADAL:
Has NEVER missed Roland Garros.
On the most demanding surface there ever is and was, he is dominating like Tyson did in the ring. Heck, better. Heck, second best player of current season skipped the entire clay season 'significantly' partially because there was no freaking chance. Has that EVER freaking happened?
Yannick Noah cannot be completely wrong. After all he is from France the country that houses FO and he has won just ONE Slam in his entire 'gap ridden teeth' life. That one Slam? Roland Garros. Point? He has solid credentials!!!!!!!
French minister has accused Nadal. She cannot be completely wrong too. After all, she was the former minister for health and sport. That should carry some weight!!!!!!
Has destroyed previous clay records so ruthlessly that the second clown on the ladder has been removed from the world data base that tracks 'existence'. So there's nobody there now!!!!!
Has mysteriously recovered from recurring injuries far sooner than expected.
Every time he has returned from the 'break' he has produced form that's better than the one he 'left' with.
Given his style of play, even Tony's shorts had predicted Nadal will end his career LONG before age 30 AND abruptly. He just thrashed everyone on clay at (nearly) 31. Heck, he is the best player of the 2017 season. Proof? He could be No. 1 in a few days. Any freaking questions????
FEDERER:
Has demolished Nadal like has never done in his entire 'long-nosed' career.
Has won a Slam after being out due to surgery for nearly the entire season.
Wins another Slam after taking another long break that included attending wedding, gala functions @ New York, vacationing, bathing people.......
Wins just his second Slam - out of 19 - without dropping a set.
For the first time won a Slam with back to back five setters in the semis and the finals - forget the Nadal part being in the final.
All this when clowns five to six years younger than him are almost about to end their careers. Heck, forget 'almost'.
Won back to back Masters 1000 tournaments @ age (nearly) 36. Any freaking questions??????
Has won five out seven tournaments he has competed in this season.
Shouldn't there be some minister from UK 'surfacing' right about now? How about some player who has won Wimbledon??????
Even if Federer wins the 2017 Wimbledon, the possibility that Nadal may one day pass Federer may still exist - barely - given how things appear today.
Insert other likely options like Murray or Djokovic winning the 2017 Wimbledon title and suddenly 'realistic possibility' begins to appear - given the fast closing window (36) Federer is staring at.
How about if Nadal wins? Think that could bring something to 'life'?
No matter how and when Nadal passes Federer, wouldn't the following come to mind first:
Talent alone, regardless of how abundant and concentrated it is, WILL lose to meticulous and calculated planning?
It will be like officially declaring that the Tortoise can run faster than the Hare, no matter how insane it may sound.
How else will you be able to rationalize this overflowing and rich talent losing to some clown who some may say is 'surviving' with ONE 'trick' AND ONE surface?
It would be the first time in the history of sports, if not mankind, that this apparent and this undisputed a powerhouse of skill bordering @ genius, if not there already, will have suffered a humiliating defeat.
All the shinny objects (stats) that currently validate Federer's super talent will turn inside out to highlight the humiliation even more. Conversely, everything that's holding Nadal down today will snap to let him soar - without a blemish.
I mean, if you can bring down this massively gifted individual with arsenal that on paper is not even close, can there be any other conclusion?
Heck, just the freaking fact that there's a GOAT debate (was?) is degrading enough but for it actually end up with the Tortoise on top can be nothing but shameful and painfully embarrassing.
This is assuming Nadal is able to match or pass Federer's Slam total. Oh, what did you say? That's impossible now? Yeah? Have you been alive since January this season? If you have, you might reconsider.
So if both are, let's say, @ 18 and the separation after factoring in everything is minimal, if not not in existence, what then will be the ONE most glaringly determining factor?
TP, it's your site and you can do what you want, but a request please.
We seem to be moving toward to HOF habit which really comes down to filling in the blanks. That means it often comes down to one's knowledge of English rather than tennis or, as you often favor, tennis strategy and psychology. It's less fun and, perhaps more importantly, it is harder for those for whom English isn't a first language.
Can we please have more old time HOF contests? Focus on tennis rather than English.
It allows MANY MORE people to participate as nearly 25-50% of the puzzle is solved after just filling the blanks. However, you don't get to win the contest without explaining and connecting the dots - allowing the 'tennis strategy and psychology' bit to 'remain'.
Remember one WOF contest where you provided the link to the site to solve the blanks and someone did and still nobody won?
Imagine this contest without the 'blanks'. It's so wide open that it may even seem irrational or like a wild spaghetti shot on the wall leaving most to pass without even attempting. This way there's hope with a credible 'hint' and direction.
Federer 'navigated' the tour as a 'blind' squirrel who found a kernel here and there? However, he was endowed with near-superhuman sense of smell to locate the fruit regardless, to not end up as a 'total' failure. It's still a 'failure' though given his unprecedented smell endowment.
Nadal 'progressed' with a meticulously crafted plan that was perfected LONG before he started his professional career and was therefore able to travel the route with abundant and low hanging kernels - without any gift at least to the scale the other enjoyed?
Theory that Federer was a free spirit and would have failed under the plan Nadal employed may have some left hands but it still fails to cover enough terrain to eclipse the blind squirrel analogy - completely.
Why?
Because there are beyond glaring and gaping holes that Federer could have VERY easily evaded with help even half as worthy as the one Nadal was blessed with.
As I have barked before, the ONLY way BOTH the coach and the pupil can visualize the ENTIRE career landscape from beginning to end is by injecting the security of endless flow of well-grounded advice from the SAME source - with zero possibility of termination. Above dynamic works for both clowns involved like no other can. Add family to it and you are as close to perfect as is humanly possible. Heck, super-humanly. See list of precedents as irrefutable evidence.
ANYTHING else - meaning hiring and firing coaches - is at best a band-aid treatment for a condition that needs sustained treatment and nourishment for AT LEAST two decades, if not more - from a uniquely qualified individual. Heck, clowns are openly declaring their intention to hire a coach for a certain Slam. That's not only outright not good it's freaking harmful full of harm.
Additionally, you don't JUST need a coach - ever worse someone barely older than you (Edberg, Ljubicic, Annaconda etc). You need a seasoned person who like they say have been around the block a few times already and can produce a bird's eye view snap shot of the entire operation - from the get go - with the tangibles AND the intangibles.
How can that kind of planning NOT destroy ANY other arrangement - specially the one Federer employed - hands freaking down? You cannot wing this long and complicated an operation and duplicate the results produced through extreme and thorough planning - free spirit or not.
Nadal is three short of Federer @ the Slam pole with NOWHERE near as much firepower - on paper or a tree bark. Heck, you can make a case that Federer is extremely lucky to have not only reached No. 17 but that Nadal has not overtaken him already - with time to spare.
Aren't the two so far beyond the regular matrix that inserts logic into winning another Slam that it now boils down to who wants it more?
Or like I call it "Who is sitting on the nail".
For rock people, what that means is freaking this:
Guy visits a friend and notices his dog moaning endlessly. When asked why, his friend replies "He is sitting on a nail and will get up and move ONLY when the pain becomes absolutely unbearable. Until then he will moan and tolerate it because he is lazy".
You may not know this but humans are inherently lazy and will do ONLY just as much as is required to 'get by'. Of course, the 'get by' degree varies from individual to individual based on many factors - extreme among them is freaking pain.
So if that's a given, who will win another Slam? Or who do you think is sitting on the nail? How about a sharper nail?
Williams was one of six children and the only son of Julia Mae Williams of Shreveport, Louisiana. His father abused his mother before abandoning the family altogether.
Richard graduated from high school, moved to Chicago, and eventually to California, where he met Betty Johnson, whom he married in 1965. They had three daughters and three sons before divorcing in 1973. In 1979 Williams met Oracene Price, who had three daughters by her late husband. They married in 1980 after Venus was born, and lived for a time in Saginaw, Michigan, but eventually moved to Compton.
He took tennis lessons from a man known as "Old Whiskey" and decided his future daughters would be tennis professionals when he saw Virginia Ruzici playing on television. Williams says that he wrote up a 78-page plan, and started giving lessons to Venus and Serena when they were four and a half, and began taking them to the public tennis courts. (He now says he feels like he took them too early, and six is a better age.) Soon he got them into Shreveport tennis tournaments. In 1995, Williams pulled them out of a tennis academy, and coached them himself.
Serena won the US Open in 1999; Venus beat Lindsay Davenport to win the 2000 Wimbledon title. After that victory, Richard shouted "Straight Outta Compton!" (in reference to a song by N.W.A based on that area in Los Angeles) and jumped over the NBC broadcasting booth, catching Chris Evert by surprise and performing a triumphant dance. Evert said that the broadcasters "thought the roof was coming down".
Later in his daughter's careers, he took a less visible role, turning to other interests such as photography. He raised public interest again after his 2002 divorce from Oracene Price and his appearances with new girlfriend Lakeisha Graham, who is a year older than Venus. Richard and Lakeisha were married in 2010. Their son, Dylan Starr Williams, was born in 2012.
In July 2016, Williams suffered a stroke prior to his daughters Venus and Serena winning Wimbledon. His wife stated that his condition is fair.
Toni Nadal:
Antonio "Toni" Nadal Homar (born 27 February 1961 in Manacor, Mallorca) is a Spanishtennis coach. Toni Nadal is the uncle and coach of tennis player Rafael Nadal and the older brother of Spanish footballer Miguel Ángel Nadal. As of 2013, he is the most successful coach in the history of tennis in terms of Grand Slam titles, winning 14 Grand Slam trophies with Rafael Nadal.
Toni Nadal trained Rafael on poor courts with bad tennis balls in an effort to teach Rafael that winning or losing is not about the quality of courts, strings, lights or balls but that it is about attitude, discipline and perspective.[1]
Toni Nadal has described his coaching style as 'hard', explaining that he occasionally puts too much pressure on Rafael, but that he does so because he wants him to succeed.
Since June 9, 2013, when Rafael Nadal won his 12th Grand Slam title defeating David Ferrer in the Roland Garros final in Paris, Toni Nadal assumed sole possession of the top position on the history of tennis with 12 Grand Slam title as a coach. He broke a tie with Lennart Bergelin who coached Bjorn Borg reaching 11 Grand Slam titles between 1974–1981. Solidifying his lead on the coaches' rank list, Toni Nadal has currently 14 Grand Slam titles with his nephew.
In 2015, after Rafael Nadal lost in the second round at Wimbledon to Dustin Brown, who was ranked No. 102 at the time, former world No. 1 John McEnroe said on BBC Radio 5 Live that the Spanish tennis star should "get a new damn coach". Rafael had failed to reach the semifinals at all four Grand Slam events that year. In February 2016, at the Buenos Aires Open, Toni Nadal admitted that Rafael would have probably already replaced him if he was not his uncle. However, as of March 2016, Rafael Nadal has refused to substitute his uncle despite requests from outside experts.
